Because I have all this free time on my hands [insert chuckle here] I sit on my district's "Promotion, Retention and Grading" Committee (PRG). One of the things we are discussing right now is something that I am in a constant battle over with my principal - whether or not it is right to issue a "zero" for missing/late work.
My 8th grade team feels very strongly that we do NOT accept late work and so if something is not turned in on time, they do not receive credit. The way we look at it is in 8th grade it is sooooooooo very important that we teach accountability and try to instill a solid academic work ethic - to be frank I honestly believe these 2 things are a lot more important than the actual 8th grade science curricula that I am supposed to cover (especially considering everything I teach this year they will get again in high school).
My principal's take - which also is that of some of the people on the committee - is that a student's grade should ONLY be a reflection of what they have or have not learned and "behavior" issues should NEVER come into play. She feels that it is more important to accept late work and simply give a reduced grade for it so we can at least assess what they learned. The general philosophy being that if it was important enough to assign it then it is important enought that every child actually does it.
Now before some of you start yelling at me, let me explain how I handle this policy. If little Jimmy does not turn in his worksheet on time (or even at all) he will get a "0" on it. BUT when I return the papers to go over the answers in class, I give him a blank one so he can keep up with what I am covering and he will be prepared for the exam which will cover those topics. He is not missing out on the information but he is being held accountable on his CHOICES. And to encourage that they at least turn it in even if they get no credit, we have quarterly "reward days" where we do a lot of fun things (movies, food, kickball, socializing) and a criteria to participate is that you have no more than one "missing" assignment. So when they turn in something even if it is late, we change the assignment to "0" points and not "missing".
I can totally see the other side but I feel strongly obligated to teach accountability and to hopefully break some bad habits BEFORE they get to high school and their grades have a much bigger impact.
I would be very interested to hear some thoughts on this subject from the EduSphere. If you feel differently than I do, PLEASE try and convince me of your way because it sure would make my life a lot easier and would reduce the number of battle scars I am accumulating.
Thoughts?
Friday, February 02, 2007
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22 comments:
LOL. This seems to be an issue @ many schools.....
We had a principal, several principals back, who believed that a ZERO should be at least a 50% in the grade book, that it was still a reflection that the student failed the assignment. This principal even encouraged us / tried to goad us to grant the student some sort of credit for being in class.
I agree with you. Work not turned in is a ZERO. Thats how my class operates. Like you, there are future opportunities for the student to learn/be exposed to the assignment(s) they failed to turn in. If I was on your committee, or at your school, I believe we would be in total agreement with this issue.
Sadly, at least at my school, there is no real penalty for failing a class. Last year, in a year three "failing school", with over 1/3rd of the eighth graders failing two or more classes, NOT A SINGLE STUDENT WAS RETAINED. (And this with California's supposed "No Social Promotion" law). The message to the students is that regardless of what you do or don't do in jr. high, you get to high school with your homies.
Math is a very weak point with our students. Our local h.s.'s have Alg. 1 classes full of Jr. and Sophs. with 70-805 of them failing because they won't do/turn in their work. At a nearby town, last year, between 1/2 and 2/3 of their senior class failed to graduate!
Somewhere, somehow, students MUST be held accountable for making an effort to learn and demonstrate their learning. THAT is a major flaw in NCLB.
Stick to yer guns with No work turned in equals ZERO.
I am a student teacher at a high school. I have decided to give partial credit for late work because I want my students to pass the class. I am a compassionate human being, and I know things happen, heck, they happened to me. Of course, late work means reduced credit, and it's accepted for a week, but it gives students motivation to get points rather than give up.
This is a great opportunity to bring a student's point of view. Granted, I just graduated from college and even in Middle school/high school I was a very mature student, I think I can provide a helpful perspective - as many other students could (please go to www.oured.org) Anyways, I think that late work should accepted in the same form that missing a class is accepted. An emergency, illness...etc. However, I will never be able to forget the time when my 8th grade science teacher let some student turn in ALL work for the semester at the end of the semester. Regardless of the grade - this is insanity!
Students desperately need to learn responsibility - and not enough are getting it at home.
Our school's policy is a student gets a teacher-designated period to hand in late work for a penalty (in my case, 50%). After that, it's a zero, a real zero. And we never give "extra credit" to students who have not done the regular credit work. It's harsh, but so is the "real world." I say stick your guns. I wish my 9th graders had learned this lesson before landing in my class.
I agree with what you are doing. Being a student I can understand where teachers are coming from. As much as learning is one big aspect of school, learning responsibility and accountability is another lesson that needs to be taught from an early age.
Like all my profs, when they want a paper at a specific time, they want it right there and than. No buts and ifs and absolutely no excuses unless your attending your own funeral.
One of my profs once said, in the real world, there are deadlines and roadmaps. When your client want something done, than they really want it done. You can't hand something in late because your employer isn't going to take "10%" of your paycheck away and give you a extension on your project...if you miss a deadline, pack your bags and say goodbye to your job. Its as simple as that.
Keep enforcing it. You are preparing them for high school and university. And believe you me, it is a lesson better learn early than later.
What you need are two separate grades to report: one for achievement, one for non-academic factors such as effort, participation, on-time work, etc.
Having been a middle-school teacher myself, I completely understand the need/desire to teach kids some responsibility and accountability. And having been a high school teacher, I have seen those same kids do nothing in class because what they learned in junior high is that getting a grade is a reward/punishment system. They don't even bother anymore. We need to help kids by providing them with two kinds of feedback---not mixing everything together into one reported grade.
Science goddess, if there is only one report card grade, then how is possible to have basically "two sets of books"?
And I am curious when you say that the junior high grading is a "reward/punishment" system - how is it different than high school grading? I am obviously not in high school so I am curious in how your grading is different. Do you accept late work?
Life is full of choices. If a student chooses, of his/her own free will, to NOT do an assignment, then that student has chosen to get a zero for that assignment.
There are, of course, exceptions and allowances to be made for legitimate excuses, but if the student has a habit of 'forgetting' or just doesn't want to waste his/her time on it, etc, then it's a matter of organization, obedience, responsibility, and honor, and those things most certainly should be part of a student's grade in any kind of class.
No work, no grade. No grade, no pass. Period.
A slacker by any other name is still a slacker, and there are already too many slackers, and people willing to give slackers a pass, than we need in this world.
Pass those who pass, and retain those who do not pass. How hard a concept is that?
Social promotion is a black eye in the face of honesty, integrity, fairness, and any other positive word in the dictionary.
Slackers. Bah.
High school teacher to middle school teacher: God bless you.
I used to be of your principal's school of thought, but I have since discovered that it not only makes my life harder, but it makes the students less likely to use class time wisely and less likely to get quality work in.
If it were really true that in the real world everything is a drop-dead deadline, sure, I'd be with you. But actually, it's not. It depends on the project and all sorts of other factors, probably too many factors. Also, as much as they think they are, 13 yos aren't actually all grown up. They're learning to be responsible and adultish; they still need some prodding.
Then again, as a student one thing that always drove me crazy was teachers who pushed back deadlines for whining students or who sort of accepted anything anytime. But that's because I *personally* love a set deadline, it definitely helps procrastinators.
I'd be a bit more lenient than you are, but not at all to the point of just hand it in whenever.
Let's see for smaller stuff, like homework, if daily or almost daily, sure, you could mark it as a 0. BUT if you don't actually correct homework, but merely circulate through the room marking down that it was done? Grrrr. That's encouraging the worst of habits -- pretending/cheating.
In general for small point things, I'd set a limit of one extra day to get it in and give them 1/2 the credit. For large projects or essays, etc. I'm inclined to go with the drop a grade a day technique -- a B project handed in one day late is a C. It shows them right there in black and white (and red marking pen?) how their lateness hurt them.
The biggest problem with the all or nothing, is that while you *want* to be teaching about real life and being a conscientious student and all...really you're just teaching that if you screw up, you're completely screwed, no redemption, no chance to right a wrong.
For the kind of kids that are likely to be late often...that's a message that's likely to prevent them from ever getting started in the first place.
We do not, ever, under any circumstances, accept late assignments. Granted, it is the university, but we have been having more and more students over the years who feel they are entitled to turn in work anytime they like. We will allow students to take makeup exams, but only if they can document a serious reason they are unable to take the exam at the scheduled time, such as the death of a family member.
We have 2800 a semester in our course sequence. Even if we wanted to let them turn in work any time they wanted, we would not be able to do it.
And no, religious holidays are not valid excuses for not taking an exam.
My school instituted a consistent policy this year: ANY missing assignment (for any reason, including, "I did it but I left it at home") is assigned a 30-minute study detention (done school-wide, in one place, supervised by one wonderfully kind teacher), AND the score is reduced by 10%. If it's not turned in the next class period, it's docked another 10%. After the third, it's a zero. If the end of the quarter comes first, it's a zero.
I see it as my job not only to teach math, but also to show that choices have consequences, and if you don't like the consequences, make a different choice next time.
Incidentally, I also offer no "after the fact" extra credit.
My principal's take - is that a student's grade should ONLY be a reflection of what they have or have not learned.
students who don't turn in homework on time haven't learned to follow directions. The grade for not following directions is 0.
This isn't hard, people.If the student or parents of the student want the child's grade to reflect what they have learned, then they learn to turn the homework in on time so it can be graded. You want assessment? you follow instructions.
Then there were my daughter's high school teachers, who, when she was in bed with the flu, made us leave work and drive across town to turn in her damn projects, which were always ready because she does not procrastinate. They just could not wait for her to return to school, like the school policy said. A BIT much, in my opinion.
I'm actually a ninth grade student. I don't think I have turned in any late assignment this year, unless they were excused. That is just because that is the person I am, but I have stayed up until 1:00 in the morning doing assignments. I didn't procrastinate on them it's just because I do have a life. I have other things I do after school that require my time as well.
My point of view is that yes, late work can get out of hand and it totally fails to teach responsibility, but sometimes there is no other option. Whatever late work policy you choose, don't be too harsh, PLEASE.
Bless you! As both a middle school and high school teacher (it's a jr/sr high school with grades 7-12), I treat my 7th graders the same as my high school classes. I do not accept late work except in truly extenuating circumstances. I believe that part of a teacher's job is to teach accountability, and if students don't learn it in middle school, high school will be more challenging when they need credits to advance because there is no social promotion. If they still don't learn it in high school, they will be in for a very rude awakening in the real world after (if?) they graduate. Good for you! Stick to your guns! The high school teachers will thank you.
I am a college faculty member and a parent of a 9th grader. I consider penalizing late work so severely (50%) to be ridiculous, unprofessional, and borderline unethical. These are immature beings and giving a grade of "F" for a common human -error is wrong. Are teachers penalized whrn they misplace a student's assignmetn? when they forget a paper they need for a meeting? No, they likely are not. I understand that chronically late students need to get a message, but this is over the top. My 9th grade son forgot to pack a piece of homework one recent day and received a 50% penalty. It is was forgotten because we had been worried about his mother flying through a snow storm and arriving late at night. So, he forgot to pack the assignment in his bag before bed and it was left home. His teacher has the same attitude expressed by many of the posted comments that responsibility must be held and no student can be treated differently than another. This was not a case of irresponsibility, just a human error. There was no learning here, except about resentment for his teacher, about the lack of respect that teachers show for individual students. Is there any surprise why teachers receive so little respect from their students?
My principal's take - which also is that of some of the people on the committee - is that a student's grade should ONLY be a reflection of what they have or have not learned...
I teach 9th grade physical science (and 11th grade physics) and I completely agree with you.
Allison has a nice take--one of the things they are learning is to hand things in on time--but even if one defines learning as facts and ideas, I think you are right.
My 9th graders have forgotten more than 90% of what they supposedly learned in middle school science. They have remembered how little they had to do to get to 9th grade.
As a middle school teacher moving to high school, I have two questions for all of you facing this same issue:
1. How do you handle parent complaints? Students who feel they are entitled to turn in work late probably learned that behavior from a parent...
2. Would any of you be willing to post your course policies and procedures that you send home?
I have taught seventh/eighth grade for eleven years. My policy is that I do accept late work, but the exact policy states that the work will have half credit starting the day after it was due, if the student was present. It remains half credit until the end of that grading period. Students still get an "F" on the assignment, but they get at least some points. Those who did it on time are eligible for the "A" or whatever they earned. A large part of the reason I accept late work is to avoid parent complaints and, to date, it has worked. The sad thing is that, at most, maybe six of the MANY students missing work make the effort to turn it in, even late. Sad . . .
THANK YOU. I so completely agree and am having a parent meeting tomorrow defending my no-late work policy. You gave me better words to use than what I'd previously had in my arsenal. I don't think a no late work policy is unethical if there is no loss of learning. I'm also more than willing to grant extensions, etc., so it is NOT a blanket policy.
Really....I find it unethical and borderline malpractice to make an assignment practically worth nothing if it is late one day or even two days. If you have ever worked with high risk students you would know that failing them as punishment does not work. I call it classroom management by grades. I still see irresponsible teachers giving assignments worth 1000 points in their gradebooks and taking off letter grades for every day it is late. We live in a world of flexible deadlines. Airports are delayed, teachers do not submit grades on time, teachersdo not always provide timely feedback, construction companies miss deadlines, Trains run late...Dentists and doctors run over on surgeries and have to reschedule appointments. My point is that "punishing" students with failing grades discourages learning rather than promotes it. The Iron Fist does not work...Relationships, empathy, understanding, and the use of flexible deadlines are the real world. Seriously...teachers can be the worst at not following through. Look at your next inservice and the very "real world responsibilities" that we want to teach we model horribly. Grades reflect learning, not social manipulation.
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